INTERVIEW - Alija Izetbegovic's int'l law adviser not satisfied with effectiveness of int'l courts on Gaza

ISTANBUL (AA) - If the 7,000 Bosnians massacred at Srebrenica was genocide, over 40,000 massacred in Gaza must also qualify as genocide, according to Alija Izetbegovic's international law advisor Francis Boyle.

In an interview with Anadolu's Strategic Analysis Department, Francis Boyle, the first lawyer who won (a case at) the world court under Genocide Convention, discusses the international courts' inadequacy in reacting to the genocide in Gaza.

Q: How do you evaluate (Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin) Netanyahu’s and 12 US Senators' threat to ICC (International Criminal Court)?

Boyle: Concerning the question of the threat by the American senators and government and Israel against the ICC, why is this happening? You have to understand that Zionists dominated and are in control of the United States Congress and the executive branch of the United States government under both (former President Donald) Trump and now (President Joe) Biden. Zionists, money, influence, power, media control, all these demand that this be done.

I grew up on the south side of Chicago where Al Capone and his gang of hoodlums came from. Zionists are gangsters. They have a gangster mentality and that is what we are seeing at work here. A gangster mentality by Zionists in Israel and in the United States and their fellow travelers to make sure the ICC does absolutely nothing to prevent the Israeli extermination of the Palestinians in Gaza. And as we speak now in the West Bank, as well.

Q: How do you evaluate ICC’s statement? Do you think it is enough?

Boyle: The genocide against the Palestinians is now 7 months old and the ICC prosecutor has done nothing. He has been out to the border there between Egypt and Gaza. He has seen it for himself. He has people there on the scene. He knows exactly what's going on. He has done nothing. He could make a difference here by immediately coming out with indictments of Netanyahu, (Israeli Defense Minister Yoav) Gallant, minister of war and the chief of staff of the Israeli army.

Let me say this: In 2009, after Operation Cast Lead, there was a genocidal massacre of the Palestinians that then exterminated about 1,500 of them in Gaza with the full approval of the (George W.) Bush junior administration. I advised Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court for Palestine and the Palestinians, which he did.

Since that time, 15 years ago, the ICC has not lifted one finger to help the Palestinians, not one finger. And all the death and destruction that has been inflicted on the Palestinians since 2009 is on the head of the ICC. If they had started prosecuting the highest-level officials of the Israeli government in 2009, maybe all of this could have been prevented.

There are over 40,000 exterminated Palestinians in Gaza. Where is the ICC prosecutor now? He should have prosecuted Netanyahu and Galant and the chief of staff quite some time ago. He still hasn't done it. If he did it now, maybe he could head off this forthcoming massacre in Rafah. But where is the ICC prosecutor? Where is the International Court of Justice (ICJ)? The ICJ has inherent authority right now, if they wanted to issue an order against Israel to cease and desist.

Q: Are there any precedents to this threat? Have you seen anything like this before?

Boyle: Yes, the Trump administration did threaten the ICC when back in 2010 I filed a complaint with the ICC against George Bush, (Dick) Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, (George) Tenet, many other high-level US officials for their policy of extraordinary rendition against Muslims, Arabs, Asians of color for crimes against humanity. And finally, the previous prosecutor (Fatou) Bensouda, got permission from the ICC to open an investigation into this extraordinary rendition policy by the United States government.

What happened then is that the Trump administration adopted sanctions against the ICC prosecutor and every one affiliated with it and said they would do the same thing if action was taken against Israel.

So what happened? This new ICC prosecutor from Britain came in, Karim Khan, and one of the first things he did was drop the investigation against Bush and the rest of them for extraordinary rendition. Well, that's no profile in courage.

Q: Do you expect to see any indictment against Netanyahu in the ICC?

Boyle: I can't say I'm overly optimistic that the ICC is going to do anything to rescue the Palestinians from outright genocide. They haven't done anything since 2009. That's been 15 years. They haven’t lifted one finger. They couldn't care less.

Q: Then why is it important for US and Israel that the ICC should not charge Netanyahu?

Boyle: This is a question of legitimacy, both moral and legal. As you know, the United States likes to pretend it is the great moral emperor for the entire world. Now, those of you living in the Muslim world know this is a joke and a fraud, but a good deal of the rest of the world doesn't know that.

And also because of the Zionist control and domination of the mainstream US news media here in the United States, most of the American people don't know that either. So now, if there were indictments, action, things of this nature, it hopefully could break through and make a difference here. So, that is why these different actions, ICC, ICJ, Security Council, General Assembly, BRICS, ICAO, League of Arab States are all very important to try to break through the Zionist massive propaganda campaign in the mainstream news media and certainly in the United States and from what I'm seeing in Europe, too.

Q: Do you have trust in the ICC or ICJ court processes as the first lawyer to win anything under the Genocide Convention from the International Court of Justice?

Boyle: They, the ICC, the prosecutor and the staff as of now have the blood of 40,000 Palestinians on their hands. They could have stopped this, try to stop it, and they didn't. As for the International Court of Justice, the so-called world court, the same is true for them. I condemn them in the strong terms possible. The Republic of South Africa tried three times to get the international Court of Justice to do something meaningful and effective for the Palestinians and they refused.

They refused to order a cease-fire against Israel and South Africa is courageous, heroic. They want one order. They want a decision and they want a second order. And the world court refused to order a cease-fire despite the fact that they ordered Hamas to release the hostages. Well, fine, the hostages should be released. But that's going to require a cease-fire in the first place before the hostages get released.

It's totally nonsensical. And then Nicaragua tried to get the world court to rule there against Germany for aiding and abetting Israeli genocide against the Palestinians. And they completely rebuffed Nicaragua. It was shameless what they did to Nicaragua If you read their opinion and then just read the opinion by Nicaragua's judge, ad hoc, completely repudiating what they had to say. And they turned away Nicaragua empty-handed. The world court had a chance with that proceeding, with Nicaragua, to weigh in and do something here to try to stop a massacre at Rafah.

And instead, all they did was shed some crocodile tears for the 1.2 million Palestinians in Rafah. They did nothing. The International Court of Justice, those 15 judges up there that rejected Nicaragua, they should all be fired.

And the UN General Assembly should investigate them because the UN General Assembly controls their budget. I wouldn't give them a dime after four times having a chance to rescue and save the Palestinians, and they refuse.

What else can I say? And I say that myself. I won three orders from the International Court of Justice on behalf of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina against Yugoslavia to cease and desist from committing all acts of genocide against the Bosnians. I won the first world court ever on the Genocide Convention. Then I won a second order. This was the first time ever that any lawyer had won two orders in one case before the world court since it was founded in 1921. And then I want a third order in Article 74 for order. The world court would not give me what I asked for to save the Bosnians. And what happened? The massacre at Srebrenica. That's what happened.

South Africa, in its pleadings with the world court, quoted me and said, the last time something like this happened, the lawyer for the Bosnians asked you to give him what he needed to save the Bosnians, and you didn't.

And then took place the massacre Srebrenica. So, we are asking you to give us what we need to stop the Israeli genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza and in particular in Rafah. And they wouldn't do it.

Q: As a lawyer who won the first world court (case) on Genocide Convention, do you have any hesitation to call what happens in Gaza as genocide?

Boyle: In the Bosnia genocide case, the final decision on the merits, the world court belatedly found that the massacre, they put it that; 7,500 Bosnian Muslim men and boys of Srebrenica was genocide. That's clear. Well, now we have 40,000 massacred Palestinians in Gaza. What has the world court done about that? Nothing effective. Clearly, if 7,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys massacred at Srebrenica was genocide, over 40,000 massacred Palestinians in Gaza qualify as genocide.

Q: How do you evaluate Türkiye’s involvement in the ICJ case?

I know this, (Turkish) President (Recep Tayyip) Erdogan has instructed the Turkish government to enter the case on behalf of Nicaragua. I think that's applaudable on his part. As far as I can see now, the Turkish people and now President Erdogan are doing what they can to save the Palestinians. I commend President Erdogan and the Turkish people. Keep it up. We have to keep it up.

We haven't heard from the ICC. They're doing nothing. We have heard from President Erdogan. But with all due respect to the president, I think we need to hear some more. There are very few leaders out there, world class leaders, like the president, that a good deal of world look up to, the Muslim world certainly, taking a very firm stand here. I know he has finally cut off economic relations with Israel, which is very commendable, too.

I understand Türkiye is a very influential, powerful country politically, economically, religiously, and otherwise. But there's enormous power here on the other side. I've been up against that myself for many years on behalf of the Palestinians.

Q: If they once agreed to call the Bosnian case a genocide, why do the international courts not take necessary steps now?

Boyle: The Palestinians have always been up against two of the most powerful countries in the world: Israel and the United States. It is a lot of power on their side. And I can assure you, having been the legal adviser to the Palestinian delegation, to the Middle East peace negotiations, and especially my client and friend, the late Dr. Heider Abdul Shafi, their chair, Israel, and the US and American Zionists will do everything possible to destroy them.

Lie, cheat, blackmail, threats, intimidation, ultimately murder. It was (former Israeli Premier) Ariel Sharon who murdered my former client, (former Palestinian) President (Yasser) Arafat, with a green light from President George Bush Jr. So, they will stop at nothing. As I said before, these Zionists are gangsters. And the US government, the Zionists, those in the US government supporting them are gangsters, too.

Q: How do you evaluate the US government’s involvement in this genocide?

Boyle: (US Secretary of State Antony) Blinken was behind me at Harvard. He worked for Marty Peretz in my government department where I got my Ph.D. at Harvard. His career at Harvard wasn't going anywhere, so his wife bought out for him the (publisher) New Republic and he turned it into a house organ for the Likud Party, a diehard neocon Zionist Likudnik, just like Netanyahu, and Blinken worked for Peretz at the New Republic.

He is a diehard neocon Zionist Likudnik just like Netanyahu. And he controls the State House. As for the White House, the White House Chief of Staff (Jeff) Zients, diehard neocon Zionist and his predecessor before that, (former White House Chief of Staff) Ron Klain behind me at Harvard Law School, another diehard neocon Zionist. This is, I am afraid, what the Palestinians are up against. Türkiye is up against this power and force, as well.

Q: What is the importance of Palestine’s UN membership?

Boyle: This is very important. I was the one who did all the legal work for the Palestinians on this matter, on the Palestinian Declaration of Independence, and then on how to pursue membership in the United Nations organization. This is very important because no UN member state has ever been destroyed. Some of them have disintegrated, like my adversary, the former Yugoslavia, but they haven't been destroyed.

And as obvious the Zionists want to destroy Palestine and ethnically cleansed as many Palestinians out of Palestine as they can. That's very clear. Now, there is a precedent here on Bosnia.

When I was Bosnians' lawyer and ambassador to the world court, the United Nations, the European Union, and the Clinton administration came up with what was called the Owen-Stoltenberg Plan that would have carved up the Republic of Bosnia Herzegovina into three little pieces of land, two of which would have been immediately annexed by Serbia and Croatia.

In the portion allocated to the Muslims, they would have been wiped out. The Owen-Stoltenberg Plan would have destroyed Bosnian statehood under international law. It would have robbed Bosnia of its UN membership to make all this possible and subject 1.5 to 2 million more Bosnians to ethnic cleansing, while we already had 2 million victims of ethnic cleansing. And to facilitate this, the UN, the EU, and the Americans knew they had to get rid of Bosnia's UN membership.

I stopped that myself single-handedly. I made sure that they could not rob Bosnia of its UN membership and sabotage the Owen-Stoltenberg plan. Bosnia is still there today. They are a UN member state. They have their statehood. Obviously, they are in severe distress. In Türkiye, I know President Erdogan has done the best he can to help the Bosnians, but they're in severe distress.

Half the country is still overrun by a gang of genocidal Serb maniacs. But the Bosnian precedent proves why the Palestinians have to get that UN membership, so as not to get wiped out of history.

Q: Do you think Palestine could be a UN member state?

Boyle: In 2010, the Palestinians started a campaign, a diplomatic campaign for their UN membership. They submitted an application in 2011.

It was all in order. They fulfilled all the requirements and the Americans threatened to veto. And so, instead, the Palestinians got a UN observer state status, which they currently have, along the lines that Switzerland had before it became a full-fledged UN member state. Now, in light of the US veto, the Palestinians have invoked what is called the Uniting for Peace Resolution.

I did the memorandum for them on explaining them the Uniting for Peace resolution, how to apply it etcetera. ... That basically says in the event of the great power veto at the Security Council, the matter gets all turned over to the UN General Assembly for action on it. That is the posture we are in today as we speak. The UN General Assembly can admit Palestine as a full-fledged member state at this current Uniting for Peace Resolution session. The Palestinians will need a two-thirds vote.

They clearly have the votes. The problem is the bullying, threats, lies, harassment, and blackmail by the Americans.

I was on the floor of the UN General Assembly with the Palestinian delegation. When we moved to upgrade our status at the UN, not to go for full-fledged UN membership, but before that. And we had the votes then in the General Assembly. And what happened was, the US Ambassador Tom Pickering then got up in front of the entire UN General Assembly and threatened every state there.

I was there. I heard the threat. He was just maybe 20 yards from me, saying that “if you voted to upgrade Palestine’s status, the United States government will pull down the entire United Nations organization.”

So, what happened then was that the Palestinian delegates conferred among themselves. I was sitting right next to them. And finally, the Palestinian ambassador went up to the UN General Assembly in podium and said: "Well, we've heard what the US ambassador said, I'm withdrawing the resolution,” and that's that.